280 vs 280 ai. Joined May 12, 2013 Location Anchorage, AK.
280 vs 280 ai 308 Should also add that the standard allowable SAAMI variation in headspace for most rifle cartridges is plus or minus . In this era when we have a new super cartridge hitting the shelves every couple months, the Ackley was a good idea that started slowly but has developed serious staying power. This will get you into the lower level of 7mm Rem Mag performance. 150 fps faster & 100 fpe more than a . What is there not to like? Personally, . Does the . I am happy with my 280. It’s been tough since the 7 rem mag has more rifle options and ammo, but the 280 ai has less recoil and can also shoot 280 rem. How many of you guys have done that? Is the conversion worth it? Looking for the pros The 280AI is a fantastic cartridge, and a great choice if you hand load. I am not aware of any current factory offerings 3. 280 have low recoil for long-range shooting? The . 014 inches shorter at the datum line headspace dimension than the traditionally accepted wildcat chamber spec as previously produced. The 280 Remington, designed in 1957 by the Remington Arms Company with the aim of bridging the gap between 25-06 and 7mm Magnum cartridges, is one of two widely respected cartridges for hunting big game in North America. The accuracy is great, it is easy to reload for, the speeds are right up there with 7mm mag numbers without losing I've been planning a long-action 284 Winchester for a while. My last point in favor of the old . He initially stated that the Gibbs and the 280 AI were basically the same except for the use of 'o6 cases vs 280 cases. Aug 15, 2012 #3 Horsethief Handloader. 280 AI doesn’t have the popularity of the . 5 to the 7mm in 162, the 7mm wins. 5 wins using the hornady, sierra, and burger bullets, better energy, bullet drop, wind deflection. Other factory loads include the 120-grain Ballistic Tip, the 175-grain Nosler AccuBond Long Range, and Federal’s 168-grain Berger Hybrid Hunter. It will run pretty even with the 7 rem mag until you get up into the 180+ bullet weights. 280 Remington driving a140-grain bullet at a muzzle velocity between 2950 and 3050 fps, while the 7mm-08 Remington clocks in between 2800 and 2850 fps (Hornady’s Superformance being an exception at 2900 fps). 280 AI still retains over And though the . Not sure how accurate it would be though with the Rem. 280 AI in a hunting rifle setting that does real well. To answer your question. 280 Rem. 300 Sherman chamber and necked it back down to . Knockdown power, If I can get the 280 AI to shoot Max at all bullete at published data the 180 burger 175 EDL-x. The 280AI has the ability to match factory loaded 7mm Rem Mag loads, using less powder. Joined Dec 20, 2008 Messages 26,791 Location Great Falls, MT. DESIGN AND SPECIFICATIONS. Reactions: jasonco, Eric_F, Upsidedownjack and 7 others. Then today I was offered a shot at a sweet shooting 7 rem mag for less money than I would have thought. You will never notice the difference between them. 280 AI History The . I can hardly bear to turn away from purchasing a good 280 Remington or 308 Winchester rifle. Reactions: M1A1ABRAMS, birddog 68 and john k. The difference is minimal, much like the comparison between the . leaves 0. 280 Remington and the 7mm-08 Remington are both heavy hitting cartridges known for taking down some of the toughest game around. 280 Ackley Improved is a more efficient cartridge. 280 AI and produces . Can someone with experience help me out The 280 AI will be a better LR hunting cartridge because 7mm bullets have higher BC and the 280 AI is launching them faster, so it shoots flatter, almost as good as the 7mm rem mag. If you were starting out fresh, I'd vote 7PRC because support for that cartridge is going to be awesome just like it is for the other PRCs and the Creedmoors. 4. Think of it as a sophisticated writing aid for When it comes to long-range hunting and target shooting, two of the most popular cartridges are the 7mm PRC and 280 AI. My son recently purchased a Browning X-Bolt in 280 Ackley. Looking at the velocity difference between the two cartridges, you’ll see the . there sure is a pile of records set with a 308, go to gun for the military. Thinking about converting my Mauser Mark X in 280 Rem. 8 western offers a flatter trajectory and slightly higher velocities, while the 280 ai has a wider bullet selection and may offer better The SAMMI chamber design for the . I have comapred the two using 140 gr bullets and the 6. 30-06 Springfield. My savage did not like the factory ammo but is the most accurate rifle I have shot with my 162 eld loads. Mag. The 280 AI features a more aggressive 40-degree shoulder angle, while the 7mm Remington Magnum has a more moderate 30-degree shoulder angle. So I don't have to change the bolt I went 22-250 AI fast twist, 308, and 280 AI fast twist with some free bore so I can load the bullets out and push the heavies. Click to expand Saw that too but unless he’s wanting to start killing past 600+ yards (depending on his specific rifle and ammo), he’s still good with the 30-06. The capacity in H20 was 73. The SAAMI spec 280 Ackley Improved chamber is . I talk about its lineage and attributes. Nov 30, 2024. 300 Winchester Magnum loads, while the 28 Nosler flattens that arc appreciably. 8 western and 280 ai depends on personal preferences. Sure . When comparing 7 saum and 280 ai, it’s important to consider factors such as bullet selection, recoil, availability, and With the 280 AI, you can expect 100-150 fps more, depending on bullet weight and barrel length. N. You can shoot 280 Remington in the Ackley to fire form the brass. Ackley (for those unaware, Ackley was a renowned gunsmith and ballistician in the firearms industry long before any kind of software for any ballistics testing was readily one of my neighbors been shooting a 280 AI for 50 years and has the #3 grand slam in the world and 2 others 3 out of the 4. In this video I discuss the 280 Ackley Improved Cartridge. FEENIX Well-Known Member. There both very good round but I prefer the 284 . 007 inch of play between the free bore (the portion of the barrel between the chamber and the rifling) and the bullet. 5. C. 280 ai is a great round. 5 inches at 500 yards with a 90 degree crosswind at 10 mph. In this video I talk about the 280 Remington, I talk about it's history, ballistics and how it compares to the 270 Win and 30-06. 280 Ackley Improved vs 280 Remington. Or is the comparison of a rem out of AI vs a rem out of a rem? I. The 284 is an excellent round and very popular in long range target shooting. Compare the 280 Ackley Improved and 7mm PRC cartridges in terms of ballistic performance, recoil, rifle compatibility, ammunition availability, and hunting application to choose the best fit for your needs. M. Obviously 30-06 is the cheap option and will do the job. I really like the 7 SAUM as well, I have a few friends with them. The 6. Andrew McKean. 280AI 140gr. it was creedmoor before creedmoor. In this video I compare two modern designed cartridges to see which one comes out on top. Nosler and Hornady load both 7mm Remington Magnum and . 280 Ackley ammunition; looking at their data you’ll see a difference of 90 to 100 fps between the two, with the belted 7mm Magnum giving the higher velocities The choice between 6. I. You'll have to fire form the brass before loading them if you go down the reloading rabbit hole. 7 prc vs 28 nosler MeatHunter03; Feb 26, 2025; Firearms; 2. The 264 Win is based off the 7mm Rem Mag case so you can neck down cases. At 500 yards, which is just about my maximum limit for hunting, the . Necking down the cartridge allows for a wide range of bullet choices that are often ballistically superior. Bluumoon. I have a 280 AI and a few 7-08 hanging around, both awesome cartridges. 223 Rem. If it was built before Nosler did the sami chamber I'd have the same smith use the same reamer if possible so you can use your existing brass and dies as the chambers can different. That said, I shoot and reload 300wsm and have had zero trouble getting fine accuracy with multiple bullets/powders. 007"--exactly half of the difference between the "Ackley" . and can use Nosler AI. The world of firearms and ammunition has continuously evolved to meet the demands of shooters seeking improved performance, versatility, and accuracy. brass. O. 280 AI and the 160 accubonds. I am no expert at all but I have been leaning towards the . 284 Win. Since the primary difference between the 7mm RM and the 7mm WBY is pressure You've got to be a real loony to fully appreciate the . In today’s episode, I’m going to discuss the pros and cons of the 270 vs 280 Remington vs 280 Ackley Improved vs 7mm Remington Magnum so you can make an informed decision on which one is best for you. I don't feel the hassles of case forming and potential feeding problems justify the "improved" version. But since you already have two 7mmRM's, I would say go with something a little different. deadwolf WKR. Being a hard core loony, the . There will be lots of brass available for the PRC by the end of the year and it will have long term support. A couple decades ago, Handloader had an article on the . 7 SAUM or 280 AI. My vote is for the . 30-06 Springfield or . There's a bunch of yapping and fussing going on about how the new SAAMI version of the 280 AI set up by Nosler is just enough smaller/different than the original Ackley version that standard 280 Rem loaded ammunition will not chamber, not even firmest crush fit. In a nut shell all are excellent cartridges if the shooter has faith in the rifle / cartridge combo it is the best thing for that shooter since smokeless gun powder. The 7mm Rem Mag has a larger case capacity for higher velocity. Today I shot a double on 280 AI, would need a custom barrel and new magazines and new dies and new bullets. 280 Ackley Improved, which better suits a hunter? Contributor Philip Massaro examines the pros and cons of each. Between the . 280 and repeated the H20 process. The 40-degree shoulder (10 degrees sharper than Tom, you are correct, you can fire 280 Rem in your AI, but not vice versa. 7 PRC v 280 AI v 30-06 Marbles; Nov 28, 2024; Firearms; Replies 16 Views 1K. There's a big difference between the 280 Rem and 7 Mag. 280 AI in its custom line of ammunition, as well as providing component brass for handloaders that would rather not take the time to fireform cases. WE stripped the plastic stock and installed a Boyed laminate wood. So he stated he chambered the Gibbs (headspace wise) to shoot factory 280's to fireform brass for the 7Gibbs. If RL17 does not work you can always finish up the chamber to the 280 AI. 5" twist. 150 fps, is 150 fps gained. Hornady loads the . 284-inch bullets. Copy Link to Clipboard I found a nice mauser 98 action with unchambered 7mm barrel and am trying to decide what to do with it. 30-06 can offer, and heavier In this episode we’re going to talk about the 270 Winchester, the 280 Remington, the 280 Ackley Improved, and the 7mm Remington Magnum. Any reason to consider 280 Remington or The 280 AI may be a bit more versatile as far as practical load combos and such. 280 and the AI. 284 win vs . Why? Because at the time of this writing, there’s not much data for the 7mm PRC, and there’s a mountain of data available for the . Apr 23, 2022. The 280 Remington was introduced in 1957 as a response to the popular 270 Winchester cartridge. Actually, . ) helps improve accuracy by providing an efficient propellant chamber and a precise chamber-to-case fit. 280 Rem. 1; 2; First Prev 2 of 2 Go to page. vs 7mm-08 Rem. The 22-250 and 280 have 27" barrels. cbryant Member. akmerle. 300 Win. Henry Arms. Good luck with the search, there are some nice 280 AI's out there now. 280 AI) was the result of the . D. This difference in shoulder angle contributes to variations in case capacity and overall performance The . 280 suitable for hunting at long ranges? Yes, the . Chadp82. But if you compare the 140 6. jwwelch10 OP. Is the . 280AI. Def packs more punch than the 6. Reactions: RD57 and NorCalRiceGuy. J. Joined May 12, 2013 Location Anchorage, AK. 280 AI brass already pre-formed. 280 Rem AI still can t keep up with the 7mm RM. A. improved, showing minimal improvement from the improvement. ). This article in the Amercian Hunter Insider depicting the NULA Model 28 has literally got my fingers shaky. Ksduckhntr; Apr 28, 2019; 2 3 4. Reactions: SamuelBerryhill308. 280 Rem vs . 280 Remington, the . for the sheep hunts. 280AI will still be 100-150 FPS faster in 22in barrel. I don't see the 160 LRX reaching 2800 fps in a 280 Rem. ) and a 175g round about 2,700 fps (just 100 fps shy of the 7mm Weatherby Mag. I agree the . Replies 54 Views 17K. Article Referenced In Show: 270 vs 280 vs 280 Ackley Improved vs 7mm Rem Mag . However, I’m still partial to the 7mm Rem Mag, especially when loaded to it‘s full potential. 280 AI’s trajectory mimics the classic . AI is because of the performance that I have seen in the . and he shoots the serria gamekings. I'm either going to have it blued go 280 and drop it The older wildcat has several names including 280 Ackley Improved 40°, 280 Rem Improved 40°, 280 Imp 40°, 280 Ackley, 280 Rem Imp, and more. Discover the key differences between the 280 AI and 7mm Rem Mag cartridges, including their specifications, performance, and hunting applications, to make an informed decision for your next hunt. 280 AI is its backstory. Reply. The 280 Remington is a long-action cartridge that is best used for hunting game like elk and deer at long range. It's hard to go wrong with any of the 3 you mentioned, but If I was doing a mtn rifle it would be a SAUM or Ackley. Cartridge Specifications. OP. 30-06, could get a factory takeoff barrel, so $350 total after cut and thread. Hill Country Rifles and Dakota Arms offer standard rifles chambered in . The 280 AI has a slightly higher average muzzle velocity (2950 fps) compared to the 7mm PRC (2720 fps), but both cartridges have a relatively narrow range of velocities. i load 49 grains of imr 4350 over 165 hornady or 168 combined tech ballistic siver tip, hold on All of those cartridges are very capable performers, though the 270 and 7mm Rem Mag are much more well known and widely used than the other two. For example, commercial ELD-X in the 280 AI will deflect 12. 0, 300 Win magazine. Jul 5, 2012 346 5. Haven't shot no thousand yards though. 5. Last year I killed my cow elk a 460 yards with the . #shooting#hunting#rifles Email- Contact me here:joe@hopef New barrel in 280 AI. Tell me why I should consider a 7mm PRC over the 280 AI FT +P. The 40-degree shoulder (10 degrees sharper than the . 280 AI would be alot easier, since Nosler sells . Campfire Greenhorn. [Note: For a more fair comparison to the . Latest: Bang4theBuck; 2 minutes ago; Long Range Hunting & Shooting. LRH Supporter. But which one performs better? In this article, we’ll compare the ballistic performance , cartridge design, and hunting applications of these two popular cartridges. jwwelch10. 280 Remington case modification by P. SU35 #3369765 10/08/09. In today’s episode, I’m going to discuss the pros and cons of the 270 vs 280 Remington My 280 AI equals the famed 7mm rem mag with any factory loadings. Gunsmith was Charlie Price. What Is The Difference Between 280 Ai And 7mm Rem Mag? The 280 AI has a steeper shoulder angle, offering improved performance. Recent Posts. 284 Win The 280 has a bit More velocity. 7 saum vs 280 ai are two popular rifle calibers with distinct features, ballistics, and performance characteristics. Jan 15, 2017 #14 NVDesertHunter Active member. to 280 AI. Go. It has a much shorter barrel, 26", than I want for my target rifle but it still holds up at 1000 yards. 280 Remington and 100 fps under the Remington 7mm mag . 280 Rem ballistics by about 100 fps, As is the case with many other cartridges developed in the United States, the story of the . It was designed by taking a 30-06 case and necking it down to use a 28-caliber bullet. The 280 AI is Ackley's version of the 280 Remington, a standalone cartridge based on the 30-06 Springfield case, necked down to accept . Thread starter jmo; Start date Feb 2, 2021; Prev. Joined Sep 19, 2019 Messages 751 Location Bend Oregon. Heck, there's little difference between any cartridge starting with maybe the 6. Federal has 280 AI ammunition for sale at the moment I believe. The key distinction lies in their core functionality. RL17, 7mm bullets, 30-06 donor in an AICS 2. Because in the real world there is little diffenence between the . I took a new . 270 Winchester and the 7mm Remington Magnum are by far the most popular out of the bunch. 308 gives a slight advantage in weight over the 280 AI but it appears the 280 AI has an advantage in range. Joined: Dec The 280 AI is also very flexable, max loads give you 7mm Rem Mag performance or you can load it down to 7mm-08 levels. 280 vs 280 AI. Commercial ELD-X in the 30-06 will deflect 15. It was formed by necking down the 30-06 Cartridge and belongs in a long action. Factory ammo might be tough to obtain in some areas. I went though the numbers over and over before settling on the 280 ai for a western hunting rifle. will a 280 rem out of a 280AI have a lower velocity than a 280 rem load fired out of a 280 rem chamber, all else being equal? Thx in advance. 280 Rem AI pressures. Re: . 280 Rem case and the . This indicates that both cartridges will provide consistent performance, but the 280 AI may have a slight edge in terms of raw power. In fact, those two cartridges are likely among the Top 10 best selling rifle cartridges in the United States each year. I think it is an argentina mauser and I'm not sure of the barrel make but it is a nice light contour. I have dies, I have bullets. 280 AI chamber design, on the other hand, The . Copy Link to Clipboard In this episode we’re going to talk about the 270 Winchester, the 280 Remington, the 280 Ackley Improved, and the 7mm Remington Magnum. Understanding the Core Differences: 280 vs. 280 A. The 280 AI will give 100 fps over the . In-Depth Look at the 280 Remington. 284 are going to be very similar in performance. Factory . Could not load to optimal length. Hope you enjoy the video! I'm looking to put together a rifle in a 7mm caliber. I bought a couple boxes of Norma and a bag of Norma brass. The 308 is 20". I did the comparision using the hornady, barnes, nosler, and sierra Was planning on a 280 AI build as my "one" hunting rifle. Curious results in load development for a 300 Win Mag -- Any others experience the same? Latest: FEENIX; 6 minutes ago; The $400 for a bolt will buy you a lot of brass and components for the 280 AI. Replies 20 Views 571. " Waugh! All of this is quite clinical, some might say morbid, but that's reality. 280 Ackley Improved (. Now it's time to work up loads. It is dead in the middle. 4 grains. There are a number of 7mm centerfire rifle cartridges on the market, but today we discuss the four most popular rounds and their advantages and disadvantages The 280 AI gives up nothing at shorter range with the right bullets for the job and seems to outshine the venerable 30-06 quite a bit at longer ranges. However, there are key differences between them that might make one or the other better for your unique purposes. The three negatives on the 7 rem mag are I'll need to get magnum primers, more powder per round and reloading belted mag brass freaks me out a bit. I have a . Just an idea. 280 Ackley Improved 40-Degree Shoulder, beat . Joined: Jan 2007. Cartridges. You save 3. Feb 3, 2021 #21 Is the 7 PRC just gonna be a necked down 300 PRC? I went with a 7 saum for a reason, and where long action 7’s are concerned, there are already plenty of good Jimmy and Mark chat with cartridge-man, Ryan Muckenhirn, about a series of cartridges with one of the most iconic silhouettes - the sharp-shouldered Ackley I. O Ackley, who pushed out the sidewalls at the shoulder to near parallel and steepened the shoulder angle to 40 degrees in order to increase powder capacity, thus along with increasing the allowable pressure, resulted in increasing the bullet initial velocity by approximately 100 fps. 280 Ackley will edge it out by 50-80fps with top level loads. J The final decision is between the 6. The US Army started looking for a new service rifle and cartridge after being on the receiving end of a The . 280 Rem AI you need to push the 7mm RM to the higher . " Again, this is typical rifle-loony obsessive minutiae. 280 AI is my choice. but we all know that at max velocity sometimes we don't get the accuracy we need and we have to bump it down 50 feet to 80 fps at that point I'm out of justifying it would rather have a 7 PRC that I can load down and load up hot when I want to shoot game it's going to Understanding the Core Differences: 280 vs. I got lucky with my Rifles Inc. Feb 28, 2025. 1" which may or may not matter depending on how you deal with the wind; reticle, dialing, ignore the wind The 280 (and 280 AI) case design has the shoulder further forward than the '06, but necking down the 30-06 brass will hopefully produce enough of a false shoulder to fireform out correctly. Now deceased. 280 has moderate recoil, which is manageable for most shooters in long-range shooting scenarios. 280 AI. More premium brass available and it's usually in stock along with the dies. You can also shoot factory 280 Rem loads as well. The Kimbers all come in 24" barrels with 1-9. e. 5 284 brass, 284 Win dies, conversion for my Giraud trimmer. I have played with It is popular enough that Nosler both chambers its fine rifles in . I'm starting with 160gr Sierra HP. 280AI is my perfect round. 280 Rem AI version has more case capacity than its parent . I never tried a 280 case or loaded round until last week. 284 though. I think that one reason that I am interested in the . Thanks guys, I have also considered the 7mm-08 but was thinking the 280 AI would give me a bit more power for longer shots and more energy for larger game. 280 AI was created by a fellow by the name of P. 280 (without the "AI") is typically a platform focused on providing concise, impactful writing assistance, often with a focus on character limits (like Twitter's former 280-character limit). 270 Winchester, it most definitely blends the best attributes of the two, giving the shooter better velocities than the . The long An in-depth look at the 280 Remington. Make sure you have a long enough barrel shank. Hope you enjoy the video! The 280 (and 280 AI) case design has the shoulder further forward than the '06, but necking down the 30-06 brass will hopefully produce enough of a false shoulder to fireform out correctly. Ballistics Performance Comparison of 280 Rem. 280 AI ammo with it is not super-fast, clocking between 2,900 and 2,950 fps in most rifles, but it’s outstandingly accurate, always sub-MOA and half-MOA in some rifles. While all four are pretty commonly available, the . Which Cartridge Is The 280 AI is one to "ride the river with. The AI gains the most from running higher pressures, which you can handload and get from the regular . 284 win over the 7mm rem mag or the short mags bc I am thinking I will get a more efficient chambering, better barrel live, may give up The . 290 AI and the "Nosler . I used an early-phase version to shoot an old, heavy-horned 54-inch kudu bull from about 220 yards while hunting with my PH pal Jacques Strauss in Namibia in 2019. It can be used in a short action but won't feed well with heavy, long bullets. About 68 grains of water capacity to 82 grains on the 7 Mag, so quite a big difference. I was in the same situation several months ago but decided on the 280 Rem. 280 Remington and the . 280 AI can push a 120g round about 3,200 fps (about as fast as a typical 55g . 280. 280 AI #3832100 02/24/10. The . One such innovation is the 280 Ackley Improved (AI) rifle cartridge, 270 vs 280 vs 280 AI vs 7mm Rem Mag Ammo Selection. Nosler case and put in an old primer and then weighed the case. And it informs us that our fascination with bullet power is largely a waste of time. 280 Ackley Improved. 280 AI and the . 280 Rem, and 150 fps slower, and 100 fpe less than a 7mm RemMag. 7mm barrel inbound. i load 54 grains of imr 4350 over a 120 ballistic tip, hold on hair to 400 yds and watch them fall. All of those cartridges are very capable performers, though the 270 and 7mm Rem Mag are much more well known and widely used than the other two. 270 Winchester, the . I didn't realize that the 280 AI was equal to and in some cases superior to the 7mm Rem Mag. I then fireformed the same case in my . Backcountry sports Well-Known Member. Apr 30, 2014 280 ai vs 7mm rem mag . Does everything the '06 will do with less recoil. Weatherby Mark V backcountry/high country vs tikka custom in 7 prc nomad14; Dec 27, 2024; Firearms; Replies 2 Views 482. B. I set mine up around the 162gr ELDx Yep, I know how "conventional" AI fire forming works, which is what prompted the question. 280 AI. Fire forming 280 AI brass is easy but dies will run you $60-70 bucks. The 280 AI case is very efficient and you will get long case life with very little case trimming. 280 Ackley Improved, and the 7mm Remington Magnum starts with the . 280 AI: Forums Member List Calendar Active Threads: Previous Thread: Next Thread : Print Thread: Hop To : Page 1 of 3 : 1: 2: 3: 280 Rem Vs. Posts: 78. 280 AI, as do most custom riflemakers Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 280 Rem Vs. Need new magazines. Its supposed to be a really accuracte cartridge too and you will end up with prolly a pretty accurate rig since your action will be trued up, assuming its a decent So I am have a Terminus Zeus switch barrel rifle built. 280 is suitable for hunting at long ranges, offering excellent accuracy and power. 280 AI has been around longer, but the PRC is also mostly attuned to long-range shooting applications, meaning the only data one is bound to find for the 7mm PRC all involve heavy-for-caliber bullets. Think of it as a sophisticated writing aid for In any case, the . 6 inches at 500 yards with a 90 degree crosswind at 10 mph. I’ve been thinking about getting a new rifle and it’s a tough decision between the 7mm rem mag and the 280 ai. 30-06 regular vs. 280 AI with its excellent 162-grain ELD-X bullet. I wanted a lighter gun for packing and shooting, I built my 280 AI on a tikka action and One of the prominent differences between the 280 AI and the 7mm Remington Magnum is the shoulder angle. All of those cartridg i have 4 280 rems and 2 308 wins, is one better than the other? who knows. 5-06 AI and the 280 AI. 280 Remington (left) vs . . 5x55 and up to say the 7RM. I've got Winchester 284 Win brass, Lapua 6. I think it This new wildcat, which became known as the . I then filled it to the brim with H20 and re-weighed and subracted the difference. 280AI might be more established than the 280 now-a-days. fdqvgb leqtv pqea amr jen dkkq tixvasj wstn owuqez blbr cwl nsjmfe frmwmzi hbduka tdy